Mark 13:32

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[pjnpswiss]

Hell everyone. I do not believe in the Trinity but on Monotheism I do not see either.
 
So, I have a question about Mark 13:32.

Mar 13:32  But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

or Matthew 24:36,

Mat 24:36  But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Or how about this statement that Christ made about what David Said in Psalms.

Mat 22:41  While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
Mat 22:42  Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
Mat 22:43  He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
Mat 22:44  The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Mat 22:45  If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
Mat 22:46  And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Now if God and Christ are the same person. Why are these statements made by Christ. I do not think Christ is liar so either I am misunderstanding what he is saying or you are misunderstanding something.

God Bless,

Delmus

[Bro. Steve Winter]

Now if God and Christ are the same person. Why are these statements made by Christ. I do not think Christ is liar so either I am misunderstanding what he is saying or you are misunderstanding something.

If Jesus were not God then Christianity would be void because there would have been no perfect sacrifice.   If there were no mysteries in the Bible or verses that can appear to support polytheism to the carnal minded, there would not be so many souls headed for hell in trinity cults.

Do not allow one or two verses that you can't understand cause you to reject the plethora of verses that clearly state monotheism and are easy to understand.

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

So if you are not strict monotheist then you have rejected the first of all the commandments.  Yes, there are verses that the polytheists use on the carnal to deceive them, but if you have a foundation in truth then they won't get you.

Here is an old study that might be helpful to answer your other question.

In this post I will attempt to explain how the son could pray to the father and still not be two separate gods (or persons). The key to understanding this is understanding "flesh" and "spirit":......

Here, we see that God the Father of the old testament does NOT have flesh and bone (so consider also "The Right Hand" does not mean a big ole arm)..See, God is a Spirit and a spirit hath NOT flesh and bone.

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 

John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth....                     

Also notice the importance of TRUTH in worshiping God, We MUST know WHO we are worshipping! God of the old testament came to earth in human
form, he did NOT have blood to shed for anyone; sooooo he took on a  human body and came to his people:......

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

II Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

In other words God came in the form of Christ, not a "second person" or "Jehovah Jr.", but God HIMSELF in a human body..the Lord of Glory himself....
 
I Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

God did not send anyone else to "do the dirty work"; HE CAME HIMSELF and took on a life and then gave up that life for us!!

I John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love [of God], because he laid down his life for us...."

God himself in a human body, but even then the Spirit of God was greater than the flesh of God..even God had to keep his flesh in subjection to his Spirit..It was not the flesh body of God that did the miracles, but rather the Spirit that was in the body...and, in the garden it was flesh praying to Spirit (not one god praying to another)

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father,  and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

(The Father IN the son=The Spirit in the flesh)

Matthew 13:17 {For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous [men] have desired to see [those things] which ye see, and have not seen [them]; and to hear [those things] which ye hear, and have not heard [them].}

Matthew 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Mark 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, [saying], Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

II Peter 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

(Notice "IN WHOM" in each verse, the Father (spirit) was IN the son (flesh)).

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.....

Jesus Christ, Jehovah God in the flesh....Why is this so important?!?

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, {The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:}

Not three lords, not "three separate persons", ONE GOD: JESUS!!.....

Here are some more verses that establish that no trinitarian will be saved.   (Spoil does not mean "save")

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Truly, anyone who rejects monotheism for trinity, their blood will be on their own hands.

Bro. Steve Winter  http://www.prime.org

[Bro. Alan]

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Jesus Christ is the root of David, in that he created Adam, who David descended from. He is the offspring of David, meaning that he came in the lineage of David as the man Jesus Christ. Also, he is the bright and morning star, meaning that he will be the resurrection of David.


Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Jesus is God the Father come in the flesh in the lineage of David, to rule on his throne.



Mar 13:32  But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.


"The Son" refers to the humanity or flesh of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the Son according to the flesh, and the Father according to his deity. That is why only the Father (the Spirit of Jesus Christ) knows the hour that he is coming back. The Son (the body/ flesh of Jesus Christ) does not know, because the flesh profits nothing.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


Jesus is God Almighty:


1 Timothy 3:16  And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

Colossians 2:8  Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

[pjnpswiss]

First thing is, I do not believe in the trinity!

 I do understand what you are saying but I see it easier to understand that God has a Only begotten son as the Scripture teach. If you look at all the Scriptures and we know that Jesus was there from the beginning and that he made the heavens and the earth. Then why do you say that he is God the Father.
We also know that it was the Father who gave Christ this Power and that in the end Christ will give it all back to the Father:
1Co 15:26  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Jesus even say’s that he and the father are one and we are also one with him and the Father in his Prayer in John 17:11 or even John 14.23:
Joh 14:23  Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Plus the most famous verse is:

Joh 3:14  And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15  That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

His in Greek means (speaking of God):
 αὑτοῦ
hautou
how-too'
Contraction for G1438; self (in some oblique case or reflexive relation): - her (own), (of) him (-self), his (own), of it, thee, their (own), them (-selves), they.

Begotten in Greek means:
μονογενής
monogenēs
mon-og-en-ace
From G3441 and G1096; only born, that is, sole: - only (begotten, child).


There is so much more. Even with your right hand of God explanation. It does not seem to fit.
Look at the book of Acts:

Act 7:55  But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
Act 7:56  And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Act 7:57  Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
Act 7:58  And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
Act 7:59  And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Act 7:60  And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Jesus is at the right hand of the Father or we have another Liar here in Stephen. This cannot be. You have given a lot of text but many do not say that Christ is the Father.

If Christ is truly the Son of God as the Bible say’s, isn’t he divine? Being the Only begotten would mean that he is divine and that he somewhere before the beginning of the earth was begotten of the Father. Or is this really not what the Bible teaches?

I am not trying to cause trouble but I am looking for truth and from what you are trying to teach seems to take a lot of what Christ says and a lot of what the Bible says away.

If you would just look again with an open heart and mind without an agenda you my see what I see or prove to me without a doubt somewhere that Jesus is really the father. Don’t get me wrong, they are one as we are one with them in the sense that we believe in the words of Christ. Like 2 John 9 says:

2Jn 1:9  Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Even here there is a Separation. Why not just say the Father?  There are just to many questions in your monotheism belief!

God Bless us all in our search for the truth in Christ,

Delmus

[Bro. Steve Winter]

First thing is, I do not believe in the trinity!

Just what do you believe?   What cult are you in? You seem to be trying to prove polytheism.

Do the false-christian dirt really still teach that one of their gods is sitting on the hand of one of their other gods?????

I'd like to also address the point regarding "right hand". "Right hand" symbolizes "POWER" and not a physical hand. To prove that point I offer these verses:

John 4:24   God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Luke 24:39   Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Now we must keep in mind that Jesus was Jehovah manifest in the flesh:

Tim 3:16   And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

As an aside, do you really envision a big ole finger hanging out of the clouds when you read the following verse?

Luke 11:20   But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

Now, let's look at the verse that filthy false preachers use to deceive good folks like yourself:

Acts 7:55   But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Now, though, we have ALSO the "glory of God" standing on that hand.  Do the polytheists now apply "personhood" to a fourth separate "glory of God" personager?

Oops!  Here we have yet another individual sitting on that  big 'ole hand:

Psa 63:8   My soul followeth hard after thee: thy right hand upholdeth me.

Now, does the above verse place David sitting with Jesus on the hand?  Or does it symbolize POWER?  If you have ANY doubts about "right hand"
meaning power, read this next verse:

Mark 14:62   And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Now, some false preacher has taught you that one junior member of a Roman god squad is sitting on the hand of another god squad member.

Now that you see the folly, are you STILL going to follow that trinitarian preacher(s) into the flames of hell?

2 Cor 11:13   For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2 Cor 11:14   And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2 Cor 11:15   Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Bro. sTeve Winter  http://www.jnahc.com

[pjnpswiss]

Well My friend I beleive what the Bible says to me. I trust what Jesus said. I am just trying to understand you. I cannot see how Jesus and the father are the same. If you look alll through the text of the Bible, it makes a distinct difference in who they are. They are one as we should be one in Christ.

Even with the prayer that Christ taught us to pray unto the Father. Why not just unto Jesus and not the Father. There are so many whys to your understanding.

When you read what Jesus says it is very clear that he is the SON of God and that he Sits at the right Hand of God. Plus the Apostles will also sit at the same table prepared for them by the Father. As I wrote in my last mail Jesus will give all the Glory to the Father when all is finished. This also shows there are two different beings. I do not see how the could be just one in Spirit and one in Flesh. Then they are still one in the same. What about Jesus being our advocate in heaven. Is this not so as the word says. Or do we have a puppet tell himself that forgive those people for there wrongs Father. Okay I will Father.

Do you see what I am saying. It does not make sense. There is so much more.

The Bible says he is the Son of God. Not God ALMIGHTY.

There is a difference.

Could you tell me why Jesus talks like he does if it is not true? That may help me understand better.

Plus I do not belong to a Cult. I do not claim any church. I just read the Bible through the Teachings of the Word. Our Lord Jesus Christ and what he teaches. All other ways have lead me away from the truth in Christ.


God Bless!

Delmus

[Bro. Alan]

Well My friend I beleive what the Bible says to me. I trust what Jesus said. I am just trying to understand you. I cannot see how Jesus and the father are the same. If you look alll through the text of the Bible, it makes a distinct difference in who they are. They are one as we should be one in Christ.

Jesus speaks of himself and the Father in a distanced manner so that the Godhead will be hidden from the wise and the prudent. Those who do not get honest will never understand it.

John 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

Luke 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.


When you look at what Jesus says carnally, you end up with the Trinity, and other false Gods. When you understand that the Godhead is a spiritual revelation, then you can understand who Jesus actually is.

Has Jesus shown you the Father plainly? If not, then I suggest you pray for him to reveal himself to you.

[Bro. Steve Winter]

Well My friend I beleive what the Bible says to me. I trust what Jesus said.

LIAR!  You reject what Jesus said because it doesn't fit the stupid garbage you believe!

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Jesus is quite clear that those of you who believe that He is not the Father don't know him.

 It is starting to appear that you are just some kind of deceiving scum.

Bro. Steve Winter

[pjnpswiss]

Dear brother,
I have been praying.

Now I am searching. I have prayed and have even had Christ come to me in a Dream in my darkest hour. I love the Lord and I have been looking for truth and this is how I came to your forum here.

I know the Bible well and I have read it from many angles but now I am just reading it from the Words of Christ to understand and believe only in him. Like instructed in 2 John 9.

 I hope you understand that through Christ it is what he says that is the spirit. His words are spirit and they are life. He said this himself. And through his words he shows that he and the father are one through the spirit that they share. But this is also the spirit that was not given to us as humans until he was approved of his father in heaven. So these things understood I have a hard time seeing what you all mean.

It has nothing to do with language because I live in Switzerland and I speak two languages. I even read the German Bible and it tells me the same thing through Christ.

I have showed you how I see it. Can you truly prove to me through what Jesus taught that I am wrong. Please try and use the text in context. Because if you cannot then I will have to leave you behind also as those that do not know the truth either.
Jesus teaches that he is the way and the truth and the Life. He that believes in him will have ever lasting life. I believe in him. I know he is the only way to heaven. I understand that he is the Fullness of the godhead in himself. This is that he is the only begotten Son of God and he has the spirit of God. That he gives to all that believe in him. This I trust in and believe.

I also know that he is the gift from that father to all that believe. It has nothing to do with what you are saying. It has more to do with if what you are saying is truth.  I hope it is!

God Bless!

Delmus

PS.

Dear Brother Winters,

Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24  And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25  If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26  Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

You seem to be lacking some of these and all I have done is come to you with an open heart to see if what you are teaching is truth. I hope you will learn to find this spirit that Paul is talking about. You seem to be lacking.

God Bless!

Delmus

[Bro. Steve Winter]

I have showed you how I see it. Can you truly prove to me through what Jesus taught that I am wrong. Please try and use the text in context. Because if you cannot then I will have to leave you behind also as those that do not know the truth either.

I already showed you, and you are no brother of mine.  You are here with sugar coated words to spread a doctrine of devils.  You may not even realize that is what you are doing, but that again is no excuse.

The next time the devil comes to you in a dream pretending to be God, rebuke him in Jesus Name.

Bro. Winter

[Bro. Steve Winter]

Dear Brother Winters,

Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24  And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25  If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26  Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

You seem to be lacking some of these and all I have done is come to you with an open heart to see if what you are teaching is truth. I hope you will learn to find this spirit that Paul is talking about. You seem to be lacking.

I am no brother of yours, devil!   I do find it odd that you would wish to quote Paul since Paul commands us to curse you.

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

You are the one lacking here.

Bro. Winter

[pjnpswiss]

Dear Brother Winters,

Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24  And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25  If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26  Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

You seem to be lacking some of these and all I have done is come to you with an open heart to see if what you are teaching is truth. I hope you will learn to find this spirit that Paul is talking about. You seem to be lacking.

I am no brother of yours, devil!   I do find it odd that you would wish to quote Paul since Paul commands us to curse you.

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

You are the one lacking here.

Bro. Winter

Dear Sir,
Mat 7:1  Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2  For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3  And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4  Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5  Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Mat 7:6  Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Mat 7:7  Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8  For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Maybe you should look more into what Christ teaches to understand who he really is. Thank you. You have showed me that what I have been reading and understanding is truth. Your reactions prove this to me. Why because you cannot explain to me my faults in context. You just cast me out as evil and also insult me. That is fine I will pray for you.

Remember that the Name of Christ has to do with the way of Christ not just his name. Yashywa.

Mat 7:12  Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

You do have much to learn and that is fine. He that searches will find.

Keep dividing the word of truth. The Word is Christ and he is also the truth. Maybe you should believe in what he teaches and maybe you would see the light.

I am sorry, but I forgive you! I know how it is!

God Bless!

Delmus

[Bro. Alan]

We are the ones that believe what Jesus actually teaches. The Bible doesn't say to believe in any Trinity, it says to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the only God there has ever been. You claim that you believe that Jesus is the fullness of the Godhead, yet you deny that Jesus is the Father? Yes, thw spirit that was in Jesus was the Father. This means that Jesus was the Father come in the flesh. The Father was in the Son (Spirit in the flesh).

Jesus tells us to judge righteously. If we judge you for what you believe, then we are judging righteously, because you cannot compromise truth.

[pjnpswiss]

We are the ones that believe what Jesus actually teaches. The Bible doesn't say to believe in any Trinity, it says to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the only God there has ever been. You claim that you believe that Jesus is the fullness of the Godhead, yet you deny that Jesus is the Father? Yes, thw spirit that was in Jesus was the Father. This means that Jesus was the Father come in the flesh. The Father was in the Son (Spirit in the flesh).

Jesus tells us to judge righteously. If we judge you for what you believe, then we are judging righteously, because you cannot compromise truth.

Why is it so hard for you to teach me. I do believe that his spirit is the Fathers. He even says this but this he never says he is the Father. He says he and the father are one like we can be of one spirit with them when we believe. Does this mean that we are also the Father because we are one with them. I do not think so. I think this should be re-studied. Not to throw insults at me for things that you believe that don't seem to make any sense in scripture.

DO you see what I mean?

God Bless!


Delmus

[Bro. Steve Winter]

Why is it so hard for you to teach me. I do believe that his spirit is the Fathers. He even says this but this he never says he is the Father. He says he and the father are one like we can be of one spirit with them when we believe. Does this mean that we are also the Father because we are one with them. I do not think so. I think this should be re-studied. Not to throw insults at me for things that you believe that don't seem to make any sense in scripture.

Ignorance is no excuse.

2Tim 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Isn't that just like the devil?   To try and deceive souls into hell from sheeps clothing and then whine about judging when their error is pointed out!

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

We don't coddle imps here!

Bro. Steve Winter

[Bro. Steve Winter]

[
Mat 7:6  Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Good point but I have to take the chance about doing that when someone like you comes along just in case they are sincere.


Bro. Winter

[Bro. Alan]

Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

If you are not in the right place to receive what we are saying, then no matter how many verses we give you, you will not receive it. It has to be revealed to you. Pray for truth and realize that God does not reveal himself to just anyone.

[Viseo]

Why is it so hard for you to teach me. I do believe that his spirit is the Fathers. He even says this but this he never says he is the Father. He says he and the father are one like we can be of one spirit with them when we believe. Does this mean that we are also the Father because we are one with them. I do not think so. I think this should be re-studied. Not to throw insults at me for things that you believe that don't seem to make any sense in scripture.

DO you see what I mean?

God Bless!


Delmus

I thought I'd put my 2 cents in! Here is a nice paper I found that might help for understanding this topic better.

http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/father.htm

John 14:26
26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

For those trying to understand this I have a question for you:
How are you going to be taught spiritual things by God if you don't get the Holy Ghost first and then try?

Look at Acts 19 real quick with me.

Acts 19

 1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

 7And all the men were about twelve.


Notice that Paul found those that believed on Christ and the first thing he asked them was if they receive the Holy Ghost since they believed on Jesus. Notice He didn't ask them if they understood the Godhead and all mysteries first.

Then of course these guys had to be RE-baptized in the Name of Jesus because they were baptized incorrectly to be saved. That should speak volumes to those baptized in the trinitarian formula. You need to be baptized correctly! They received the Holy Ghost and Spake in Tongues...just like everyone that receives the Holy Ghost!

I Cor 12:7
7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

With that said, I would recommend that you get the Holy Ghost first and the rest will follow! Find a church in your area or country that follows the Apostle's doctrine of Acts 2:38 and Jesus name baptism. It's easier to get the Holy Ghost when others that have it pray for you! However, you can get it on your own if you are sincere and let everything go!


Andrew

[Bro. Steve Winter]

Then of course these guys had to be RE-baptized in the Name of Jesus because they were baptized incorrectly to be saved. That should speak volumes to those baptized in the trinitarian formula. You need to be baptized correctly! They received the Holy Ghost and Spake in Tongues...just like everyone that receives the Holy Ghost!

While I agree with your conclusion, I felt to mention that at the time John was baptising that was the only baptism available and was valid for a temporary space of time and ordained by God for that season.

Trinity baptism however is rank idolatry and is a demonic baptism into MYSTERY BABYLON.

Regards,

Bro. Winter

[peterpaint]

Praise the LORD Jesus.
I've always wondered about those verses in Acts 19:1-6.
I wonder why Paul asked them if they had received the Holy Ghost? Did he see behavior that made him wonder if they were Spirit filled? And their response in verse 2...we have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
I always saw these verses as Paul finding fellow believers, but seeing something less than was/is to be expected in a true Spirit filled disciple, so he said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? Then finding out that they knew nothing about the Holy Ghost infilling of the truely born again experience, he dug a little deeper and asked Unto what then were ye baptized?
When he found out that they had never followed the new testament plan of salvation, BUT BELIEVED on the LORD Jesus, he immediately told them the truth, that if they truely believed then they needed to be baptized in Jesus name and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, which they did IMMEDIATELY ( as every false Christian/believer should).
bro pete

[Bro. Steve Winter]

When he found out that they had never followed the new testament plan of salvation, BUT BELIEVED on the LORD Jesus, he immediately told them the truth, that if they truely believed then they needed to be baptized in Jesus name and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, which they did IMMEDIATELY ( as every false Christian/believer should).
bro pete

They knew that believing on Jesus included being baptised in Jesus Name.

Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
 
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Regards,

Bro. Winter

[peterpaint]

Thats what I mean, it says " Acts 19:5, when they heard this ". They didn't know it until Paul told them, then they understood, and were baptized and Paul laid his hands on them and they received the Holy Ghost.
Blessings to you Pastor.
bro pete

[Bro. Steve Winter]

Thats what I mean, it says " Acts 19:5, when they heard this ". They didn't know it until Paul told them, then they understood, and were baptized and Paul laid his hands on them and they received the Holy Ghost.
Blessings to you Pastor.
bro pete

Yes, but Paul did not have to tell them to be baptized.  They knew that to believe on Jesus included being water baptized in Jesus Name.

Regards,

Bro. Winter